Jonathan Toomim: "At 32 MB, we can handle something like ...

If scaling improvements to the protocol concern you, you're in the wrong place

This is rbtc, the subreddit for people who wanted to scale and improve Bitcoin but were censored out of rbitcoin.
Recently, a fair amount of noise has been generated from a few comments made by Jonathan Toomim regarding reducing the block interval.
Reducing the block interval is something that I and many others have assumed would eventually happen. Like the block size limit, the block interval is not a sacred cow variable, but is instead a "safe enough for now" guess that Satoshi pulled out of his ass.
A few things should be said about the block interval:
  1. Can't do instant txns - It probably can't ever be reduced low enough to permit reliable "instant" transactions without a significant penalty to orphan rate, which would be bad.
  2. Can be reduced without penalty - It definitely can be reduced by several factors of two, and maybe even by an entire order of magnitude, without any significant penalty to orphan rate.
  3. Reducing block interval is a scaling improvement - Reducing the average block interval by half offers an equivalent scaling benefit to doubling the block size. Reducing it by an order of magnitude offers equivalent scaling benefit to increasing the block size limit by 10x. A 10x improvement in block interval would be the equivalent to increasing the current BSL to 320MB.
  4. Reducing block interval is a usability improvement - while it is true that reducing block interval is unlikely to facilitate "instant" transactions at the register, it is also true that many other applications would see a usability improvement. An easy example is more quickly moving coins on and off exchanges. But every transaction would see a reduction in confirmation wait times, which is an unqualified win, even at the register. Every application that uses the blockchain would see a UX benefit, however marginal, because other things equal, faster is always better.
Past this, I want to point out that, at this moment, there is literally no plan at all to reduce block interval. None.
All that's happened is just the beginning of some discussion. That's it. A few comments in a reddit sub. Nothing more.
Folks, we have to be able discuss improvements without people freaking out at the mere hint of discussion.
submitted by jessquit to btc [link] [comments]

Subreddit Stats: btc top posts from 2019-01-06 to 2020-01-05 11:19 PDT

Period: 363.85 days
Submissions Comments
Total 1000 86748
Rate (per day) 2.75 237.19
Unique Redditors 317 7747
Combined Score 194633 356658

Top Submitters' Top Submissions

  1. 31014 points, 162 submissions: Egon_1
    1. Vitalik Buterin to Core Maxi: “ok bitcoiner” .... (515 points, 206 comments)
    2. These men are serving life without parole in max security prison for nonviolent drug offenses. They helped me through a difficult time in a very dark place. I hope 2019 was their last year locked away from their loved ones. FreeRoss.org/lifers/ Happy New Year. (502 points, 237 comments)
    3. "It’s official Burger King just accepted Bitcoin Cash and GoC token as a payment option in Slovenia." (423 points, 112 comments)
    4. "HOLY SATOSHI! 😱😱 I did it! A smart card that produces valid BitcoinCash signatures. Who would love to pay with a card—to a phone?? Tap took less than a second!👟..." (368 points, 105 comments)
    5. Chrome 'Has Become Surveillance Software. It's Time to Switch' -> Brave to support BCH! (330 points, 97 comments)
    6. Gavin Andresen (2017): "Running a network near 100% capacity is irresponsible engineering... " (316 points, 117 comments)
    7. "Evidently @github has banned all the Iranian users without an ability for them to download their repositories. A service like Github must be a public good and must not be controlled by a centralized entity. Another great example of why we as a society need to make web3 a reality" (314 points, 117 comments)
    8. Roger Ver: "Bitcoin Cash acceptance is coming to thousands of physical shops in Korea" (313 points, 120 comments)
    9. Paul Sztorc: “Will people really spend $70-$700 to open/modify a lightning channel when there's an Altcoin down the street which will process a (USD-denominated) payment for $0.05 ? Many people seem to think yes but honestly I just don't get it” (306 points, 225 comments)
    10. Food For Thought (303 points, 105 comments)
  2. 29021 points, 157 submissions: MemoryDealers
    1. Bitcoin Cash is Lightning Fast! (No editing needed) (436 points, 616 comments)
    2. Brains..... (423 points, 94 comments)
    3. Meanwhile in Hong Kong (409 points, 77 comments)
    4. Ross Ulbricht has served 6 years in federal prison. (382 points, 156 comments)
    5. Just another day at the Bitcoin Cash accepting super market in Slovenia. (369 points, 183 comments)
    6. Why I'm not a fan of the SV community: My recent bill for defending their frivolous lawsuit against open source software developers. (369 points, 207 comments)
    7. History Reminder: (354 points, 245 comments)
    8. It's more decentralized this way. (341 points, 177 comments)
    9. The new Bitcoin Cash wallet is so fast!!!!! (327 points, 197 comments)
    10. The IRS wants to subpoena Apple and Google to see if you have downloaded crypto currency apps. (324 points, 178 comments)
  3. 6909 points, 37 submissions: BitcoinXio
    1. Tim Pool on Twitter: “How the fuck are people justifying creating a world like the one's depicted in Fahrenheit 451 and 1984? You realize that censorship and banning information was a key aspect of the dystopian nightmare right?” (435 points, 75 comments)
    2. The creator of the now famous HODL meme says that the HODL term has been corrupted and doesn’t mean what he intended; also mentions that the purpose of Bitcoin is to spend it and that BTC has lost its value proposition. (394 points, 172 comments)
    3. Erik Voorhees on Twitter: “I wonder if you realize that if Bitcoin didn’t work well as a payment system in the early days it likely would not have taken off. Many (most?) people found the concept of instant borderless payments captivating and inspiring. “Just hold this stuff” not sufficient.” (302 points, 66 comments)
    4. Bitfinex caught paying a company to astroturf on social media including Reddit, Twitter, Medium and other platforms (285 points, 86 comments)
    5. WARNING: If you try to use the Lightning Network you are at extremely HIGH RISK of losing funds and is not recommended or safe to do at this time or for the foreseeable future (274 points, 168 comments)
    6. Craig Wright seems to have rage quit Twitter (252 points, 172 comments)
    7. No surprise here: Samson Mow among other BTC maxi trolls harassed people to the point of breakdown (with rape threats, etc) (249 points, 85 comments)
    8. On Twitter: “PSA: The Lightning Network is being heavily data mined right now. Opening channels allows anyone to cluster your wallet and associate your keys with your IP address.” (228 points, 102 comments)
    9. btc is being targeted and attacked, yet again (220 points, 172 comments)
    10. Brian Armstrong CEO of Coinbase using Bitcoin Cash (BCH) to pay for food, video in tweet (219 points, 66 comments)
  4. 6023 points, 34 submissions: money78
    1. BSV in a nutshell... (274 points, 60 comments)
    2. There is something going on with @Bitcoin twitter account: 1/ The URL of the white paper has been changed from bitcoin.com into bitcoin.org! 2/ @Bitcoin has unfollowed all other BCH related accounts. 3/ Most of the posts that refer to "bitcoin cash" have been deleted?!! Is it hacked again?! (269 points, 312 comments)
    3. "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow." (262 points, 130 comments)
    4. Jonathan Toomim: "At 32 MB, we can handle something like 30% of Venezuela's population using BCH 2x per day. Even if that's all BCH ever achieved, I'd call that a resounding success; that's 9 million people raised out of poverty. Not a bad accomplishment for a hundred thousand internet geeks." (253 points, 170 comments)
    5. Jonathan Toomim: "BCH will not allow block sizes that are large enough to wreak havoc. We do our capacity engineering before lifting the capacity limits. BCH's limit is 32 MB, which the network can handle. BSV does not share this approach, and raises limits before improving actual capacity." (253 points, 255 comments)
    6. What Bitcoin Cash has accomplished so far 💪 (247 points, 55 comments)
    7. Which one is false advertising and misleading people?! Bitcoin.com or Bitcoin.org (232 points, 90 comments)
    8. A message from Lightning Labs: "Don't put more money on lightning than you're willing to lose!" (216 points, 118 comments)
    9. Silk Road’s Ross Ulbricht thanks Bitcoin Cash’s [BCH] Roger Ver for campaigning for his release (211 points, 29 comments)
    10. This account just donated more than $6600 worth of BCH via @tipprbot to multiple organizations! (205 points, 62 comments)
  5. 4514 points, 22 submissions: unstoppable-cash
    1. Reminder: bitcoin mods removed top post: "The rich don't need Bitcoin. The poor do" (436 points, 89 comments)
    2. Peter R. Rizun: "LN User walks into a bank, says "I need a loan..." (371 points, 152 comments)
    3. It was SO simple... Satoshi had the answer to prevent full-blocks back in 2010! (307 points, 150 comments)
    4. REMINDER: "Bitcoin isn't for people that live on less than $2/day" -Samson Mow, CSO of BlockStream (267 points, 98 comments)
    5. "F'g insane... waited 5 hrs and still not 1 confirmation. How does anyone use BTC over BCH BitcoinCash?" (258 points, 222 comments)
    6. Irony:"Ave person won't be running LN routing node" But CORE/BTC said big-blocks bad since everyone can't run their own node (256 points, 161 comments)
    7. BitPay: "The Wikimedia Foundation had been accepting Bitcoin for several years but recently switched pmt processors to BitPay so they can now accept Bitcoin Cash" (249 points, 61 comments)
    8. FreeTrader: "Decentralization is dependent on widespread usage..." (195 points, 57 comments)
    9. The FLIPPENING: Fiat->OPEN Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash! Naomi Brockwell earning more via BitBacker than Patreon! (193 points, 12 comments)
    10. LN Commentary from a guy that knows a thing or 2 about Bitcoin (Gavin Andresen-LEAD developer after Satoshi left in 2010) (182 points, 80 comments)
  6. 3075 points, 13 submissions: BeijingBitcoins
    1. Last night's BCH & BTC meetups in Tokyo were both at the same restaurant (Two Dogs). We joined forces for this group photo! (410 points, 166 comments)
    2. Chess.com used to accept Bitcoin payments but, like many other businesses, disabled the option. After some DMs with an admin there, I'm pleased to announce that they now accept Bitcoin Cash! (354 points, 62 comments)
    3. WSJ: Bitfinex Used Tether Reserves to Mask Missing $850 Million, Probe Finds (348 points, 191 comments)
    4. Bitcoiners: Then and Now [MEME CONTEST - details in comments] (323 points, 72 comments)
    5. I'd post this to /Bitcoin but they would just remove it right away (also I'm banned) (320 points, 124 comments)
    6. So this is happening at the big protest in Hong Kong right now (270 points, 45 comments)
    7. /Bitcoin mods are censoring posts that explain why BitPay has to charge an additional fee when accepting BTC payments (219 points, 110 comments)
    8. The guy who won this week's MillionaireMakers drawing has received ~$55 in BCH and ~$30 in BTC. It will cost him less than $0.01 to move the BCH, but $6.16 (20%) in fees to move the BTC. (164 points, 100 comments)
    9. The Bitcoin whitepaper was published 11 years ago today. Check out this comic version of the whitepaper, one of the best "ELI5" explanations out there. (153 points, 12 comments)
    10. Two Years™ is the new 18 Months™ (142 points, 113 comments)
  7. 2899 points, 18 submissions: jessquit
    1. Oh, the horror! (271 points, 99 comments)
    2. A few days ago I caught flak for reposting a set of graphs that didn't have their x-axes correctly labeled or scaled. tvand13 made an updated graph with correct labeling and scaling. I am reposting it as I promised. I invite the viewer to draw their own conclusions. (214 points, 195 comments)
    3. Do you think Bitcoin needs to increase the block size? You're in luck! It already did: Bitcoin BCH. Avoid the upcoming controversial BTC block size debate by trading your broken Bitcoin BTC for upgraded Bitcoin BCH now. (209 points, 194 comments)
    4. Master list of evidence regarding Bitcoin's hijacking and takeover by Blockstream (185 points, 113 comments)
    5. PSA: BTC not working so great? Bitcoin upgraded in 2017. The upgraded Bitcoin is called BCH. There's still time to upgrade! (185 points, 192 comments)
    6. Nobody uses Bitcoin Cash (182 points, 88 comments)
    7. Double-spend proofs, SPV fraud proofs, and Cashfusion improvements all on the same day! 🏅 BCH PLS! 🏅 (165 points, 36 comments)
    8. [repost] a reminder on how btc and Bitcoin Cash came to be (150 points, 102 comments)
    9. Holy shit the entire "negative with gold" sub has become a shrine devoted to the guilded astroturfing going on in rbtc (144 points, 194 comments)
    10. This sub is the only sub in all of Reddit that allows truly uncensored discussion of BTC. If it turns out that most of that uncensored discussion is negative, DON'T BLAME US. (143 points, 205 comments)
  8. 2839 points, 13 submissions: SwedishSalsa
    1. With Bitcoin, for the first time in modern history, we have a way to opt out. (356 points, 100 comments)
    2. In this age of rampant censorship and control, this is why I love Bitcoin. (347 points, 126 comments)
    3. The crypto expert (303 points, 29 comments)
    4. Satoshi reply to Mike Hearn, April 2009. Everybody, especially newcomers and r-bitcoin-readers should take a step back and read this. (284 points, 219 comments)
    5. Bitcoin Cash looking good lately. (235 points, 33 comments)
    6. Roger Ver bad (230 points, 61 comments)
    7. History of the BTC scaling debate (186 points, 54 comments)
    8. MFW i read Luke Jr wants to limit BTC blocks to 300k. (183 points, 116 comments)
    9. Meanwhile over at bitcoinsv... (163 points, 139 comments)
    10. Listen people... (155 points, 16 comments)
  9. 2204 points, 10 submissions: increaseblocks
    1. China bans Bitcoin again, and again, and again (426 points, 56 comments)
    2. China bans Bitcoin (again) (292 points, 35 comments)
    3. Bitcoin Cash Network has now been upgraded! (238 points, 67 comments)
    4. So you want small blocks with high fees to validate your own on chain transactions that happen OFF CHAIN? (212 points, 112 comments)
    5. It’s happening - BTC dev Luke jr writing code to Bitcoin BTC codebase to fork to lower the block size to 300kb! (204 points, 127 comments)
    6. Former BTC maximalist admits that maxi's lied cheated and stealed to get SegWit and Lightning (201 points, 135 comments)
    7. Just 18 more months to go! (172 points, 86 comments)
    8. Bitcoin Cash ring - F*CK BANKS (167 points, 51 comments)
    9. LTC Foundation chat leaked: no evidence of development, lack of transparency (155 points, 83 comments)
    10. A single person controls nearly half of all the Lightning Network’s capacity (137 points, 109 comments)
  10. 2138 points, 12 submissions: JonyRotten
    1. 'Craig Is a Liar' – Early Adopter Proves Ownership of Bitcoin Address Claimed by Craig Wright (309 points, 165 comments)
    2. 200,000 People Have Signed Ross Ulbricht's Clemency Petition (236 points, 102 comments)
    3. Street Artist Hides $1,000 in BTC Inside a Mural Depicting Paris Protests (236 points, 56 comments)
    4. Craig Wright Ordered to Produce a List of Early Bitcoin Addresses in Kleiman Lawsuit (189 points, 66 comments)
    5. Ross Ulbricht Clemency Petition Gathers 250,000 Signatures (163 points, 24 comments)
    6. Ross Ulbricht Letter Questions the Wisdom of Imprisoning Non-Violent Offenders (160 points, 50 comments)
    7. Expert Witness in Satoshi Case Claims Dr Wright's Documents Were Doctored (155 points, 44 comments)
    8. California City Official Uses Bitcoin Cash to Purchase Cannabis (151 points, 36 comments)
    9. Money Transmitter License Not Required for Crypto Businesses in Pennsylvania (141 points, 9 comments)
    10. McAfee to Launch Decentralized Token Exchange With No Restrictions (137 points, 35 comments)

Top Commenters

  1. jessquit (16708 points, 2083 comments)
  2. Ant-n (7878 points, 1517 comments)
  3. MemoryDealers (7366 points, 360 comments)
  4. Egon_1 (6205 points, 1001 comments)
  5. 500239 (5745 points, 735 comments)
  6. BitcoinXio (4640 points, 311 comments)
  7. LovelyDay (4353 points, 457 comments)
  8. chainxor (4293 points, 505 comments)
  9. MobTwo (3420 points, 174 comments)
  10. ShadowOfHarbringer (3388 points, 478 comments)

Top Submissions

  1. The perfect crypto t-shirt by Korben (742 points, 68 comments)
  2. The future of Libra Coin by themadscientistt (722 points, 87 comments)
  3. when you become a crypto trader... by forberniesnow (675 points, 54 comments)
  4. A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google. by InMyDayTVwasBooks (637 points, 209 comments)
  5. Imagine if in 2000 Apple just sat around all day shit-talking Microsoft. Apple would have never gone anywhere. Apple succeeded because they learned from their mistakes, improved, and got better. BCH should do the same. by guyfawkesfp (552 points, 255 comments)
  6. Bitcoin made The Simpsons intro! Sorry for the potato quality by Johans_wilgat (521 points, 44 comments)
  7. Vitalik Buterin to Core Maxi: “ok bitcoiner” .... by Egon_1 (515 points, 206 comments)
  8. Can't stop won't stop by Greentoboggan (514 points, 78 comments)
  9. These men are serving life without parole in max security prison for nonviolent drug offenses. They helped me through a difficult time in a very dark place. I hope 2019 was their last year locked away from their loved ones. FreeRoss.org/lifers/ Happy New Year. by Egon_1 (502 points, 237 comments)
  10. Blockchain? by unesgt (479 points, 103 comments)

Top Comments

  1. 211 points: fireduck's comment in John Mcafee on the run from IRS Tax Evasion charges, running 2020 Presidential Campaign from Venezuela in Exile
  2. 203 points: WalterRothbard's comment in I am a Bitcoin supporter and developer, and I'm starting to think that Bitcoin Cash could be better, but I have some concerns, is anyone willing to discuss them?
  3. 179 points: Chris_Pacia's comment in The BSV chain has just experienced a 6-block reorg
  4. 163 points: YourBodyIsBCHn's comment in I made this account specifically to tip in nsfw/gonewild subreddits
  5. 161 points: BeijingBitcoins's comment in Last night's BCH & BTC meetups in Tokyo were both at the same restaurant (Two Dogs). We joined forces for this group photo!
  6. 156 points: hawks5999's comment in You can’t make this stuff up. This is how BTC supporters actually think. From bitcoin: “What you can do to make BTC better: check twice if you really need to use it!” 🤦🏻‍♂️
  7. 155 points: lowstrife's comment in Steve Wozniak Sold His Bitcoin at Its Peak $20,000 Valuation
  8. 151 points: kdawgud's comment in The government is taking away basic freedoms we each deserve
  9. 147 points: m4ktub1st's comment in BCH suffered a 51% attack by colluding miners to re-org the chain in order to reverse transactions - why is nobody talking about this? Dangerous precident
  10. 147 points: todu's comment in Why I'm not a fan of the SV community: My recent bill for defending their frivolous lawsuit against open source software developers.
Generated with BBoe's Subreddit Stats
submitted by subreddit_stats to subreddit_stats [link] [comments]

A Response to Roger Ver

This post was inspired by the video “Roger Ver’s Thoughts on Craig Wright”. Oh, wait. Sorry. “Roger Ver’s Thoughts on 15th November Bitcoin Cash Upgrade”. Not sure how I mixed those two up.
To get it out of the way first and foremost: I have nothing but utmost respect for Roger Ver. You have done more than just about anyone to bring Bitcoin to the world, and for that you will always have my eternal gratitude. While there are trolls on both sides, the crucifixion of Bitcoin Jesus in the past week has been disheartening to see. As a miner, I respect his decision to choose the roadmap that he desires.
It is understandable that the Bitcoin (BCH) upgrade is causing a clash of personalities. However, what has been particularly frustrating is the lack of debate around the technical merits of Bitcoin ABC vs Bitcoin SV. The entire conversation has now revolved around Craig Wright the individual instead of what is best for Bitcoin Cash moving forward.
Roger’s video did confirm something about difference of opinions between the Bitcoin ABC and Bitcoin SV camps. When Roger wasn’t talking about Craig Wright, he spent a portion of his video discussing how individuals should be free to trade drugs without the intervention of the state. He used this position to silently attack Craig Wright for allegedly wanting to control the free trade of individuals. This appears to confirm what Craig Wright has been saying: that DATASIGVERIFY can be used to enable widely illegal use-cases of transactions, and Roger’s support for the ABC roadmap stems from his personal belief that Bitcoin should enable all trade regardless of legal status across the globe.
Speaking for myself, I think the drug war is immoral. I think human beings should be allowed to put anything they want in their own bodies as long as they are not harming others. I live in the United States and have personally seen the negative consequences of the drug war. This is a problem. The debasement of our currency and theft at the hands of central banks is a separate problem. Bitcoin was explicitly created to solve one of these problems.
Roger says in his video that “cryptocurrencies” were created to enable trade free from government oversight. However, Satoshi Nakamoto never once said this about Bitcoin. Satoshi Nakamoto was explicitly clear, however, that Bitcoin provided a solution to the debasement of currency.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” – Satoshi Nakamoto 02/11/2009
As we’ve written previously, the genesis block is often cited as a criticism of the 2008 bailout. However, the content of the article outlines that the bailout had already occurred. The article reveals that the government was poised to go a step further by buying up the toxic bank assets as part of a nationalization effort! In this scenario, according to the Times, "a 'bad bank' would be created to dispose of bad debts. The Treasury would take bad loans off the hands of troubled banks, perhaps swapping them for government bonds. The toxic assets, blamed for poisoning the financial system, would be parked in a state vehicle or 'bad bank' that would manage them and attempt to dispose of them while 'detoxifying' the main-stream banking system." The article outlines a much more nightmarish scenario than bank bailouts, one that would effectively remove any element of private enterprise from banking and use the State to seize the bank's assets.
The United States is progressively getting to a point where cannabis can be freely traded and used without legal repercussion. As a citizen, each election has given me the opportunity to bring us closer to enacting that policy at a national level. However, I have never had the ability to have a direct impact on preventing the debasement of the United States dollar. The dollar is manipulated by a “private” organization that is accountable to no one, and on a yearly basis we are given arbitrary interest rates that I have no control over. The government uses its arbitrary control over the money supply to enable itself to spend trillions of dollars it doesn’t have on foreign wars. Roger Ver has passionately argued against this in multiple videos available on the internet.
This is what Bitcoin promised to me when I first learned about it. This is what makes it important to me.
When the Silk Road was shut down, Bitcoin was unaffected. Bitcoin, like the US dollar, was just a tool that was used for transactions. There is an inherent danger that governments, whether you like it or not, would use every tool at their disposal to shut down any system that enabled at a protocol level illegal trade. They, rightfully or wrongfully, did this with the Silk Road. Roger’s video seems to hint that he thinks Bitcoin Cash should be an experiment in playing chicken with governments across the world about our right to trade freely without State intervention. The problem is that this is a vast underestimation of just how quickly Bitcoin (BCH) could be shut down if the protocol itself was the tool being used for illegal trade instead of being the money exchanged on top of illegal trade platforms.
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with Roger’s philosophy on what “cryptocurrencies” should be. However, I know what Bitcoin is. Bitcoin is simply hard, sound money. That is boring to a lot of those in the “cryptocurrency” space, but it is the essential tool that enables freedom for the globe. It allows those in Zimbabwe to have sound currency free from the 50 billion dollar bills handed out like candy by the government. It allows those of us in the US to be free from the arbitrary manipulation of the Fed. Hard, sound, unchanging money that can be used as peer to peer digital cash IS the killer use case of Bitcoin. That is why we are here building on top of Bitcoin Cash daily.
When Roger and ABC want to play ball with governments across the globe and turn Bitcoin into something that puts it in legal jeopardy, it threatens the value of my bitcoins. Similar to the uncertainty we go through in the US every year as we await the arbitrary interest rates handed out by the Fed, we are now going to wait in limbo to see if governments will hold Bitcoin Cash miners responsible for enabling illegal trade at a protocol level. This is an insanely dangerous prospect to introduce to Bitcoin (BCH) so early in its lifespan. In one of Satoshi Nakamoto’s last public posts, he made it clear just how important it was to not kick the hornet’s nest that is government:
“It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us.” – Satoshi Nakamoto 12/11/2010
Why anyone would want to put our opportunity of sound monetary policy in jeopardy to enable illegal trading at a base protocol level is beyond me. I respect anyone who has an anarcho-capitalist ideology. But, please don’t debase my currency by putting it at risk of legal intervention because you want to impose that ideology on the world.
We took the time to set up a Q&A with the Bitcoin SV developers Steve Shadders and Daniel Connolly. We posted on Reddit and gathered a ton of questions from the “community”. We received insanely intelligent, measured, and sane responses to all of the “attack vectors” proposed against increasing the block size and re-enabling old opcodes. Jonathon Toomim spent what must have been an hour or so asking 15+ questions in the Reddit thread of which we obtained answers to most. We have yet to see him respond to the technical answers given by the SV team. In Roger’s entire video today about the upcoming November fork, he didn’t once mention one reason why he disagrees with the SV roadmap. Instead, he has decided to go on Reddit and use the same tactics that were used by Core against Bitcoin Unlimited back in the day by framing the upcoming fork as “BCH vs BSV”, weeks before miners have had the ability to actually vote.
What Bitcoin SV wants to accomplish is enable sound money for the globe. This is boring. This is not glamorous. It is, however, the greatest tool of freedom we can give the globe. We cannot let ideology or personalities change that goal. Ultimately, it won’t. We have been continual advocates for miners, the ones who spend 1000x more investing in the network than the /btc trolls, to decide the future of BCH. We look forward to seeing what they choose on Nov 15th.
Roger mentions that it is our right to fork off and create our own chains. While that is okay to have as an opinion, Satoshi Nakamoto was explicit that we should be building one global chain. We adhere to the idea that miners should vote with their hashpower and determine the emergent chain after November 15th.
“It is strictly necessary that the longest chain is always considered the valid one. Nodes that were present may remember that one branch was there first and got replaced by another, but there would be no way for them to convince those who were not present of this. We can't have subfactions of nodes that cling to one branch that they think was first, others that saw another branch first, and others that joined later and never saw what happened. The CPU proof-of-worker proof-of-work vote must have the final say. The only way for everyone to stay on the same page is to believe that the longest chain is always the valid one, no matter what.” – Satoshi Nakamoto 11/09/2008
Edit: A clarification. I used the phrase "Bitcoin is boring". I want to clarify that Bitcoin itself is capable of far more than we've ever thought possible, and this statement is one I will be elaborating on further in the future.
submitted by The_BCH_Boys to btc [link] [comments]

ETC should NOT be trying to distinguish itself with its own dev team, its own roadmap, etc

I am starting to see the ETC make the same mistake that caused Bitcoin Classic to lose support: focusing on differences other than the one which is the entire reason for the project's existence.
People are largely drawn to ETC because they oppose the bailout. They believe ETC is Ethereum, and ETHF is a compromised imitation of the real Ethereum.
The more other junk gets added to the ETC message, the lower the support will be.
If ETC becomes the dominant chain, Vitalik and all the other prominent Ethereum folks will start treating ETC as the real fork. There is no need to create a new dev roadmap. Focusing on differences other than "ETC is the real chain, ETHF is the bailout chain" will just dilute the message.
Once ETC becomes dominant, that is the time for the discussion in the entire Ethereum community to turn to any change in dev direction that the community wants.
I personally am happy with Vitalik and the rest of the devs, except for their decision to support ETHF. If it becomes a matter of me having to support Vitalik and the old devs vs. some ragtag group of devs that come out of the woodwork now, my support for ETC gets significantly weaker. Again, this is a false choice because the ETHF devs will become ETC devs if ETC wins.
Brief history lesson: Bitcoin Classic initially had a lot of support from miners, exchanges, and users for their Core idea: "upgrade the existing Bitcoin network to 2 MB blocks." However, things started going south when the Toomim brothers mistook support for Bitcoin Classic for support for their other ideas about Bitcoin governance and what the dev roadmap should be.
Miners, businesses, and investors looked at Toomim's community voting site to determine the direction of the project, and looked at the people who were leading Classic in a different direction (especially Jonathan's brother, Michael Toomim), and said "No thanks. I like the 2 MB block size idea, but I don't want these people changing all this other stuff."
The ETC community doesn't need to make investors choose between different dev teams. ETC can win this battle by focusing on the fundamental choice of "do you think the bailout chain should be the main chain, or the original chain?"
submitted by go1111111 to EthereumClassic [link] [comments]

Cryptsy Co-founder and Josh Garza Co-conspirator is the ideas guy behind Bitcoin Classic

In this chat the lead developer of Bitcoin Classic (Jonathan Toomim) mentions Marshall Long solicited him to develop the client
Here he says he and his developer buddy have Ahmed Bodiwala commit access.
For those that don't know Marshall, he is the pinnacle of crypto-genius who specializes in everything technology. But you don't need to take his word for it, his work speaks for itself.
He is the Co-founder and CTO of Cryptsy and worked to ensure Cryptsy is the most secure and legit exchange on the planet.
He worked directly with the CEO of Mining Asic Technologies to distribute hardware preorders. Unfortunately Mining Asic Technologies went bankrupt before delivering those preorders but that's beside the point.
Then there's Ziftr which he provided marketing for. You might not think that's a big deal but if you take a look at Ziftr you will notice that it's practically a useless cryptocurrency with the sole purpose of using "creative" marketing to convince people to buy into their IPO.
He also provided guidance/developers to his self proclaimed buddy Josh Garza with the development of Paycoin aka the most technologically advanced cryptocurrency ever created in two weeks. Sure, you might say paycoin was just peercoin with a few lines of code changed which introduced several catastrophic, client breaking bugs, but I'd say he did a great job.
In addition, he provided Garza with his escape to Dubai exit strategy. You can read the plan drafted by Marshalls buddy Leo here. The fact that Garza fled to Dubai and has yet to be caught is just another testament to his skills in global economics.
Overall I'm pretty impressed. Will probably be investing the last of my savings into Bits-coin knowing that this guy will play a major role in development of the client supported by 90% of the bits-coin economy.
submitted by 9432948 to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

I think that it will be easier to increase the volume of transactions 10x than it will be to increase the cost per transaction 10x. - /u/jtoomim (miner, coder, founder of Classic)

https://np.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/48c8jj/is_a_fee_event_likely_to_occud0ipqkk
Fee revenue for miners is still extremely small compared to the 25 BTC block subsidy. The average amount of fees per block has been around 0.5 BTC for the last 20 blocks, or about 2% of total revenue.
If block sizes increase, then miners can include a greater number of transactions, each of which has a smaller fee. Whether this results in greater or lesser total fees is purely speculative right now, and depends on a lot of different variables (like demand and the actual block size).
I personally think that miners' best bet for achieving long-term survival is increasing the block size to about 10 MB over 4 years while keeping fee/kB about the same as it is now. I think that it will be easier to increase the volume of transactions 10x than it will be to increase the cost per transaction 10x.
One of the issues with increasing the fee per tx is that doing so would make Bitcoin less attractive as a currency to investors, speculators, and users, which in turn would likely result in a decrease in the exchange rate. This would reduce the real value of the 25 BTC bitcoin block reward, which will have a much larger effect on miner revenue than direct fees, at least for the next 4.5 years. Thus, the idea of keeping block sizes small in order to maximize revenue through fees is likely to backfire.
~ jtoomim
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/4089aj/im_working_on_a_project_called_bitcoin_classic_to/
I'm working on a project called Bitcoin Classic to bring democracy and Satoshi's original vision back to Bitcoin development.
~ jtoomim
This guy understands how Bitcoin works.
One big reason why Classic is going to innovate and grow is because it was founded by a miner who's also a coder: Jonathan Toomim jtoomim.
If miners want to succeed long-term, they should listen to their fellow miner jtoomim who's also a coder - not to Adam Back.
Adam Back doesn't understand how mining works, and his Lightning Network will steal miners' fees.
submitted by ydtm to btc [link] [comments]

The Big Blocks Mega Thread

Since this is a pressing and prevalent issue, I thought maybe condensing the essential arguments into one mega thread is better than rehashing everything in new threads all the time. I chose a FAQ format for this so a certain statement can be answered. I don't want to re-post everything here so where appropriate I'm just going to use links.
Disclaimer: This is biased towards big blocks (BIP 101 in particular) but still tries to mention the risks, worries and fears. I think this is fair because all other major bitcoin discussion places severely censor and discourage big block discussion.
 
What is the block size limit?
The block size limit was introduced by Satoshi back in 2010-07-15 as an anti-DoS measure (though this was not stated in the commit message, more info here). Ever since, it has never been touched because historically there was no need and raising the block size limit requires a hard fork. The block size directly limits the number of transactions in a block. Therefore, the capacity of Bitcoin is directly limited by the block size limit.
 
Why does a raise require a hard fork?
Because larger blocks are seen as invalid by old nodes, a block size increase would fork these nodes off the network. Therefore it is a hard fork. However, it is possible to downsize the block limit with a soft fork since smaller blocks would still be seen as valid from old nodes. It is considerably easier to roll out a soft fork. Therefore, it makes sense to roll out a more ambitious hard fork limit and downsize as needed with soft forks if problems arise.
 
What is the deal with soft and hard forks anyways?
See this article by Mike Hearn: https://medium.com/@octskyward/on-consensus-and-forks-c6a050c792e7#.74502eypb
 
Why do we need to increase the block size?
The Bitcoin network is reaching its imposed block size limit while the hard- and software would be able to support more transactions. Many believe that in its current phase of growth, artificially limiting the block size is stifling adoption, investment and future growth.
Read this article and all linked articles for further reading: http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks
Another article by Mike Hearn: https://medium.com/@octskyward/crash-landing-f5cc19908e32#.uhky4y1ua (this article is a little outdated since both Bitcoin Core and XT now have mempool limits)
 
What is the Fidelity Effect?
It is the Chicken and Egg problem applied to future growth of Bitcoin. If companies do not see how Bitcoin can scale long term, they don't invest which in turn slows down adoption and development.
See here and here.
 
Does an increase in block size limit mean that blocks immediately get larger to the point of the new block size limit?
No, blocks are as large as there is demand for transactions on the network. But one can assume that if the limit is lifted, more users and businesses will want to use the blockchain. This means that blocks will get bigger, but they will not automatically jump to the size of the block size limit. Increased usage of the blockchain also means increased adoption, investment and also price appreciation.
 
Which are the block size increase proposals?
See here.
It should be noted that BIP 101 is the only proposal which has been implemented and is ready to go.
 
What is the long term vision of BIP 101?
BIP 101 tries to be as close to hardware limitations regarding bandwidth as possible so that nodes can continue running at normal home-user grade internet connections to keep the decentralized aspect of Bitcoin alive. It is believed that it is hard to increase the block size limit, so a long term increase is beneficial to planning and investment in the Bitcoin network. Go to this article for further reading and understand what is meant by "designing for success".
BIP 101 vs actual transaction growth visualized: http://imgur.com/QoTEOO2
Note that the actual growth in BIP 101 is piece-wise linear and does not grow in steps as suggested in the picture.
 
What is up with the moderation and censorship on bitcoin.org, bitcointalk.org and /bitcoin?
Proponents of a more conservative approach fear that a block size increase proposal that does not have "developeexpert consensus" should not be implemented via a majority hard fork. Therefore, discussion about the full node clients which implement BIP 101 is not allowed. Since the same individuals have major influence of all the three bitcoin websites (most notably theymos), discussion of Bitcoin XT is censored and/or discouraged on these websites.
 
What is Bitcoin XT anyways?
More info here.
 
What does Bitcoin Core do about the block size? What is the future plan by Bitcoin Core?
Bitcoin Core scaling plan as envisioned by Gregory Maxwell: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-Decembe011865.html
 
Who governs or controls Bitcoin Core anyways? Who governs Bitcoin XT? What is Bitcoin governance?
Bitcoin Core is governed by a consensus mechanism. How it actually works is not clear. It seems that any major developer can "veto" a change. However, there is one head maintainer who pushes releases and otherwise organizes the development effort. It should be noted that the majority of the main contributors to Bitcoin Core are Blockstream employees.
BitcoinXT follows a benevolent dictator model (as Bitcoin used to follow when Satoshi and later Gavin Andresen were the lead maintainers).
It is a widespread believe that Bitcoin can be separated into protocol and full node development. This means that there can be multiple implementations of Bitcoin that all follow the same protocol and overall consensus mechanism. More reading here. By having multiple implementations of Bitcoin, single Bitcoin implementations can be run following a benevolent dictator model while protocol development would follow an overall consensus model (which is enforced by Bitcoin's fundamental design through full nodes and miners' hash power). It is still unclear how protocol changes should actually be governed in such a model. Bitcoin governance is a research topic and evolving.
 
What are the arguments against a significant block size increase and against BIP 101 in particular?
The main arguments against a significant increase are related to decentralization and therefore robustness against commercial interests and government regulation and intervention. More here (warning: biased Wiki article).
Another main argument is that Bitcoin needs a fee market established by a low block size limit to support miners long term. There is significant evidence and game theory to doubt this claim, as can be seen here.
Finally, block propagation and verification times increase with an increased block size. This in turn increases the orphan rate of miners which means reduced profit. Some believe that this is a disadvantage to small miners because they are not as well connected to other big miners. Also, there is currently a large miner centralization in China. Since most of these miners are behind the Great Firewall of China, their bandwidth to the rest of the world is limited. There is a fear that larger block propagation times favor Chinese miners as long as they have a mining majority. However, there are solutions in development that can drastically reduce block propagation times so this problem will be less of an issue long term.
 
What is up with the fee market and what is the Lightning Network (LN)?
Major Bitcoin Core developers believe that a fee market established by a low block size is needed for future security of the bitcoin network. While many believe fundamentally this is true, there is major dispute if a fee market needs to be forced by a low block size. One of the main LN developers thinks such a fee market through low block size is needed (read here). The Lightning Network is a non-bandwidth scaling solution. It uses payment channels that can be opened and closed using Bitcoin transactions that are settled on the blockchain. By routing transactions through many of these payment channels, in theory it is possible to support a lot more transactions while a user only needs very few payment channels and therefore rarely has to use (settle on) the actual blockchain. More info here.
 
How does LN and other non-bandwidth scaling solutions relate to Bitcoin Core and its long term scaling vision?
Bitcoin Core is headed towards a future where block sizes are kept low so that a fee market is established long term that secures miner incentives. The main scaling solution propagated by Core is LN and other solutions that only sometimes settle transactions on the main Bitcoin blockchain. Essentially, Bitcoin becomes a settlement layer for solutions that are built on top of Bitcoin's core technology. Many believe that long term this might be inevitable. But forcing this off-chain development already today seems counterproductive to Bitcoin's much needed growth and adoption phase before such solutions can thrive. It should also be noted that no major non-bandwidth scaling solution (such as LN) has been tested or even implemented. It is not even clear if such off-chain solutions are needed long term scaling solutions as it might be possible to scale Bitcoin itself to handle all needed transaction volumes. Some believe that the focus on a forced fee market by major Bitcoin Core developers represents a conflict of interest since their employer is interested in pushing off-chain scaling solutions such as LN (more reading here).
 
Are there solutions in development that show the block sizes as proposed via BIP 101 are viable and block propagation times in particular are low enough?
Yes, most notably: Weak Blocks, Thin Blocks and IBLT.
 
What is Segregated Witness (SW) and how does it relate to scaling and block size increases?
See here. SW among other things is a way to increase the block size once without a hard fork (the actual block size is not increased but there is extra information exchanged separately to blocks).
 
Feedback and more of those question/answer type posts (or revised question/answer pairs) appreciated!
 
ToDo and thoughts for expansion:
@Mods: Maybe this could be stickied?
submitted by BIP-101 to btc [link] [comments]

Bitcoin developement is centralized. But replacing core with classic goes from bad to worse.

Bitcoin implementations are centralized around Bitcoin-core. Bitcoin-core itself has a process for making improvements that tries to remain decentralized, but ultimately (as we've seen) a few people end up calling the shots, sometimes before the community has been invited to participate in any of the discussion.
A list of people who contribute heavily to core:
Among 24 others who have contributed.
Then you have Bitcoin XT, and Bitcoin Classic, who have responded to the centralization by trying to overthrow bitcoin-core, overthrow the consensus rules, and replace Bitcoin with a new implementation, new leadership, and new management. A list of people behind Bitcoin Classic:
A noticeably shorter list. And, a lot of these people play a larger role as politicians than they do as actual developers, at least in the recent past.
Throwing out the old to bring in the new is not decentralization. You are exchanging one centralized development team for a different, even more centralized development team. That's not decentralization! If you want decentralized code, decentralized development, and decentralized implementations, you need to have multiple implementations that can coexist. Bitcoin is not moving in a decentralized direction. We are seeing centralization happen right before our eyes: the large players in the ecosystem are making a power play to push the small players out. This will happen more times, and after a few iterations you'll have one giant the same way Microsoft took over desktop computing.
If this is the direction that Bitcoin goes, you can count me out. Bitcoin has had a history of moving in a centralized direction and the recent evolutions are no improvement. If you want decentralization, please support actions that help decentralize the network, decentralize the political structures, and improve the situation. Bitcoin is in a bad place, but the active changes in the ecosystem are going from bad to worse. We are losing control of our cryptocurrency.
submitted by Taek42 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Is it possible for there to be two chains after a hard fork? | Gavin Andresen | Sep 29 2015

Gavin Andresen on Sep 29 2015:
I keep seeing statements like this:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Toomim (Toomim Bros) via
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
As a further benefit to hard forks, anybody who is ideologically opposed
to the change can continue to use the old version successfully, as long as
there are enough miners to keep the fork alive.
... but I can't see how that would work.
Lets say there is a hard fork, and 5% of miners stubbornly refuse to go
along with the 95% majority (for this thought experiment, it doesn't matter
if the old rules or new rules 'win').
Lets further imagine that some exchange decides to support that 5% and lets
people trade coins from that fork (one of the small altcoin exchanges would
definitely do this if they think they can make a profit).
Now, lets say I've got a lot of pre-fork bitcoin; they're valid on both
sides of the fork. I support the 95% chain (because I'm not insane), but
I'm happy to take people's money if they're stupid enough to give it to me.
So, I do the following:
1) Create a send-to-self transaction on the 95% fork that is ONLY valid on
the 95% fork (maybe I CoinJoin with a post-fork coinbase transaction, or
just move my coins into then out of an exchange's very active hot wallet so
I get coins with a long transaction history on the 95% side of the fork).
2) Transfer those same coins to the 5% exchange and sell them for whatever
price I can get (I don't care how low, it is free money to me-- I will
still own the coins on the 95% fork).
I have to do step (1) to prevent the exchange from taking the
transfer-to-exchange transaction and replaying it on the 95% chain.
I don't see any way of preventing EVERYBODY who has coins on the 95% side
of the fork from doing that. The result would be a huge free-fall in price
as I, and everybody else, rushes to get some free money from anybody
willing to pay us to remain idealogically pure.
Does anybody think something else would happen, and do you think that
ANYBODY would stick to the 5% fork in the face of enormously long
transaction confirmation times (~3 hours), a huge transaction backlog as
lots of the 95%'ers try to sell their coins before the price drops, and a
massive price drop for coins on the 5% fork.

Gavin Andresen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20150929/1104ed67/attachment.html>
original: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-Septembe011245.html
submitted by dev_list_bot to bitcoin_devlist [link] [comments]

#Blocktalk - ZCash Mining w/ Toomim Brothers Best Crypto Exchanges To Buy Bitcoin & Trade ... BCH Coffeehouse: Improving the Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm How To Send Bitcoin to an Exchange How to Short Bitcoin (CFDs, Exchanges, Options) - YouTube

Last January, news.Bitcoin.com reported on Jonathan Toomim’s project Xthinner, which could help alleviate such problems in the future. Xthinner is block propagation software that leverages canonical transaction ordering (CTOR) and can compress blocks by more than 90%, if all of the transactions in the block were previously transmitted. Software developer and miner Jonathan Toomim published a video on July 2 which shows how he built a benchmark to measure the performance of the Bitcoin Cash reference client Bitcoin ABC. Toomim’s test generated 672,000 transactions and mined them into blocks in roughly a nine-minute time frame. Software developer and miner Jonathan Toomim published a video on July 2 which shows how he built a benchmark to measure the performance of the Bitcoin Cash reference client Bitcoin ABC. Toomim’s test generated 672,000 transactions and mined them into blocks in roughly a nine-minute time frame. Toomim asserts that Grasberg is “a big step on the path to corruption” and it “was not properly simulated.” ... the Victoria Falls Stock Exchange is open to listing bitcoin and other ... The controversy really heated up after the Bitcoin ABC development team decided to adopt Jonathan Toomim’s ASERT Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm (DAA), but also included the controversial Infrastructure Funding Proposal (IFP) coinbase rule as well. If the rule was to be applied, approximately 8% of the coinbase reward would be set aside for ...

[index] [16066] [7079] [34113] [10089] [722] [7044] [19253] [32348] [27006] [10047]

#Blocktalk - ZCash Mining w/ Toomim Brothers

Toomim Bros. Bitcoin Mining Concern uploaded a video 3 years ago 6:36. ZCash GPU cloud mining at Toomim Bros - Duration: 6 minutes, 36 seconds. Toomim Bros. Bitcoin Mining Concern. How to use Shapeshift to exchange bitcoin? - Duration: 9:08. One Month 24,322 views. 9:08. GDAX Tutorial - How to Trade for Free - Stop vs. Limit Orders - Duration: 8:28. Jonathan Toomim Karol Trzeszczkowski Bitcoin Cash Coffeehouse is a new series that brings together developers and other members in the community for thoughtful discussion in order to figure out ... 🎥: Top 4 Exchanges To Buy Bitcoin & Cryptocurrencies For Beginners! 🚩: Binance Exchange (My Favourite): 👉 https://www.binance.com/en/register?ref=RMY9N5F0 TBC EXCHANGER PROFESSIONAL SOFTWARE FOR COMPUTER USERS.. Free To Download. Download Link 1: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lfLTQWhbOepE1sPSa3SyJhwu0Uj6JDK...

#